The Best Coins to Mine in 2020 with: CPU, GPU or ASIC ...
NiceHash Miner.Most profitable and easy to use miner ...
[Question] Building first PC - Need some advice
Hey, I was hoping to get some advice. This will be the first computer I'll potentially build and I want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes here. I basically went on PC Parts Picker after reading a bunch of reviews and articles and tried to put a computer together, I have no idea what I'm doing, I essentially followed advice from reviews and chose highest rated components while trying to be as cheap as possible. It turned out to be 2 grand which is pretty rough. If someone wouldn't mind taking a look at the list and letting me know if there's any substitutions I can make to lower the price, that would be aces. PCPartPicker Part List
How sketchy are second hand parts? I read that people use gpus to mine bitcoins and stuff which is no bueno for the gpu then sell them but is there anything to kinda lookout for or is it all just random? Some of my concerns regarding the build are Cooling, from what I've read the included stock cooler with the Ryzen 7 3700x is pretty decent. I'm not really looking to overclock the CPU but is there any detriment to the life of the CPU over time by not having better cooling? X570 motherboards, I read something along the lines of with the new generation of Ryzen CPUs there may be some BIOS issues with older X-whatever motherboards and you'll need an older CPU to be able to boot and update the BIOS. So the 570 is the safest bet. I'm trying to save money where ever I can so is there maybe an older motherboard that is 1000000% known to work with a ryzen 7 3700x? 2070 super, how super is it? It was only 100ish more than the 2070 but I don't really understand what it means in terms of real world performance, I saw a lot of graphs with benchmarks but how worth it is the super over the regular 2070? How does RAM overall contribute to your computer? What would be the advantage of 16 vs 8gb in terms of real performance that you notice? Is it better to split the ram into more sticks and use all the slots on the motherboard? Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks for taking the time.
As many others did, I got a stimulus payment today. I also got a raise and a bonus on my last paycheck. So I'm looking to get some upgrades. I desperately need a new GPU. When I built my PC 2 years ago, I re-used my old graphics card because the bitcoin miners inflated the prices so high. So I'm looking to upgrade my CPU and GPU now. Current specs: 650W gold rated PSU, 16GB DDR4, Ryzen 1500X, Geforce GTX 960 2GB. Monitor is 1080p 60hz, but I do plan on buying a high refresh rate monitor in the future. I've already decided to upgrade the CPU to a 3600 or 3600X. That was an easy decision. My main problem is I don't have enough VRAM for anything that's come out in the past year or so. I've been looking at mid range cards like the 5600XT and 1660 Super or 2060 RTX. The thing that concerns me, is those cards only have 6GB VRAM, and in the benchmarks I've watched, I see some games are already using over 5GB. With a new console generation launching soon, I'd imagine games are going to start using more VRAM. So I really want to go with 8GB. The other thing that concerns me, is I've only ever bought one video card from team red before. That was a Radeon HD 5770. I had nothing but problems with it. It would crash and blackscreen like every 10 minutes, and I reached out on the official forums, there were quite a few of us with the same issue. I waited for the driver to fix it, never got fixed, so I ended up buying a 560 TI. Now looking at the 5600XT and 5700, I'm hearing the AMD is still having driver issues. That's a shame, because they seem to be beating Nvidia in price to performance. So now I'm considering a 2060 Super, but the price is making me hesitate. So question is, what is the best graphics card to pair with my Ryzen 3600 upgrade?
So that's what I have so far. I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm just sort of picking things based on price and reviews. I haven't paid attention to PC parts since the bitcoin mining drove gpu prices way up, so I have no idea what the benchmarks for the 2000 series are, I assume the 2070 super is probably pretty good. I mostly just want to be able to run anything at max settings 1080p 60fps, while not having to upgrade much (if at all) for at least a couple years. My main concerns with this build right now is whether or not I'm undeover paying for certain parts, or if certain parts are inadequate or bottlenecking the performance of others. Also, tips on other parts I may still need (excluding monitors/k+m). Being able to cut costs on stuff I don't need would great. Thanks in advance!
List anything you've done in attempt to diagnose or fix the problem. My gaming PC hasn't been working properly for like a year or more. A year or 2 ago I changed all my pc parts for new ones, so all the stuff in my computer is not more than 2 years old. Whenever I am playing a game or running benchmarks my monitor will go to a no input screen after a few minutes of running. I first thought it might be a GPU problem, so i RMA'd it. I have had about 5 different 1080Ti's that were all back from RMA. I have already brought my PC to a repair shop here, they also didnt know where the problem would be. They have checked all the parts, but they couldn't check the MB and CPU. So I send my MB to the place where i bought it from, they tested the MB for 4 hours in different benchmarks and nothing was wrong. I tried installing the gpu into my dad's pc, it still crashed, but after like half a day. I swapped the cpu for a Ryzen 3 1200, but still no luck. I've tried almost anything but nothing seems to work. Reinstalling and factory resetting also doesn't seem to fix the issue. When i unplug the pc and remover the psu cables from the GPU and plug Them back in a fee seconds later, my pc will take longer to crash. I should add that the PSU is from an old bitcoin miner, i don't know if that has any negative effect on the system. I hope this is enough info for you guys to help me out with, if any more info is needed just say so , thanks in advance
Hello everyone, As some of you have probably noticed I have been taking the time to try my best to help some of you answer some questions.
However there has been a lot of repeat questions lately so hopefully this will help. I will continue to update this as we go, please check back if you have any questions as I will try to update this frequently
If you have a question you do not see covered please feel free to comment and I'll add it and try to answer it. I have added a unresolved to the beginning of this FAQ. I will number them below. Please comment below with the answer, to help me identify which question you are answering please add. UR#(x) to your comment as well, with x being the number of the unresolved question.
Before we start I will get my disclaimer out of the way. I do not work with/for any of the developers of these programs. I do not have all the answers. Some of these are my best guess, others may be wrong or may have a better solution than the one I give. Please feel free to correct me if this is the case and I will edit as we go.
Set-up We have two text guides here by waffleflops one for awesome miner and one for multi mining pool. We also have a YouTube video guide by razorseal
So which one should I use? It seems like it depends on what you want from the program, Awesome Miner is more like Nicehash in the way it looks but can be a little more complicated. MPM is pretty simple but it has less customization for those not familiar with programming.
NX18: "I find MPM to be better. No stability issues, no funky windows service always running in the background, and it checks MPH for best coin to mine whereas AM checks whattomine.com and they differ significantly sometimes."
MPM also has a minimum dev fee of 10 minutes per day (even if you set donate to 0) whereas AM does not seem to have dev fees. Both I believe have fees included that go to the devs of the miner programs themselves. However these fees for the miner devs will be attached whether you use MPM/AM or solo miner with the miner dev programs anyway.
1. Anyone have solutions on crashing or very low Hashrates in sgminers with AMD GPU's in Awesome Miner? 2. Why is Lyra2Z using only 40% power from my GPU (GTX980ti)? Where/how can it tweak the settings? I believe this is having to do with Awesome Miner 3.I did not see it asked or posted but I am curious if there's a way to bench all gpus. Instead of selecting gpu 0 and benching, waiting until its done and moving on to gpu 1 and so on. I have 8 nvidia gpus, just wondering if there's a way to auto bench all of them in a row so I can walk away and go to bed, be done I'm the middle of the night.
General MPH Questions
1.Hashrate is not the same on my miner as it is on the dashboard? From MPH: "Hashrate showing on site is just an estimated value. Pool doesn't know about miner very much. It just collects certain "shares" which is some piece of hash that satisfies certain conditions. So don't worry, it's all about probability thing. Your hashrate on site can go up and down time to time." There is some luck involved when mining in pools it is like playing the lottery. NiceHash paid at a certain rate because you were not mining coins and getting paid you were getting paid for the hash you are providing.
2. Balances on MPH what are the brackets? The brackets are coins that have not yet been confirmed enough times on the blockchain. Any coins not in brackets have been confirmed.
3. How long will it take for my coins to show up, transfer to and from the exchange, be credited to my auto exchange coin?
I have been seeing a lot of questions about this so I made a flowchart which you can view Here
Short Answer: It depends could be minutes could be days Long Answer: It has to be exchanged first and then placed in auto-exchange balance balance. So you mine coin Coin credited but unconfirmed (this can take time depending on coin) Coin is confirmed and credited for auto exchange. Coin is then placed on exchange. So again has to be transferred and again has to be confirmed but on exchange side. Coin is most likely converted into btc then into auto-exchange coin at exchange. Then auto-exchange coin is sent back to your balance on mph. So again has to be confirmed before appearing. Depending on how fast a coin is confirmed will depend on how fast it appears in your balance. If you stopped mining today it your balance most likely continue to grow over time. However if you continue to mine it should in theory catch up and you will see you balance grow at a semi if not expected rate.
Supplemental:Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but this should mean it changes column, not disappears from balance entirely, no? You will not know exact balance until it is sent back over from the exchange. This is because of the fact that you are exchanging the coins against one another. If one coin is up and one is down you could be losing or gaining value depending on the situation. This is why it seems that coins on the exchange disappear without your auto-exchange coins balance going up right away. Reference question 8 for more info
4. What is the best coin to auto-exchange? This depends, just remember BTC has high transaction fees and can take some time to confirm. You will want to have a good amount of BTC before moving to your wallet to minimize the amount you lose to transaction fees. I personally use LTC, it is quick and transaction fees are low compared to BTC but can still be exchanged for fiat on coinbase. At the time of writing this, if you move BTC from MPH you will be charged a $4.96 fee, if you move LTC the fee to move to your wallet is $0.19
5. Can I hold on to certain coins instead of auto-exchanging them? Yes, just go to auto exchange on MPH and switch off the coin you do not want to auto exchange.
6. This dashboard sucks! Why do they not have a one page dashboard? Good news it is in the works, improvements are on the way so no need to keep posting about it!
7. Why is my coin not being exchanged? Two possible reasons A)On balances page it says "coins that don't have enough volume on exchange for a certain amount of time will not be auto exchanged to desired coin. These coins may be sent back as original coin or btc." B)On auto-exchange page. Mph accumulates coins so that they can be efficiently converted at the exchange. If a coins pool has not mined a certain amount it will not be sent over until it reaches the set number. It seems like it is transferred over to the exchange as one large amount instead of small amounts.
8. AwesomeMiner said I was going to make $X.XX dollars and when auto-exchange coins came in I made less than it said! Couple things, do not take to heart the exact number it gives you. It is not exact remember it is like a lottery. Remember your coins at first will trickle in over time but the longer you mine it will begin to average out. Remember you are exchanging coins for you auto-exchange coin this means if there is a decrease or increase between them you could gain more or less. Example if you mine VTC and auto-exchange into LTC. You send VTC to auto-exchange it will most likely be converted into BTC first. If BTC is having a good day that day and has increased in price by 30% and VTC has not grown well that day you will be trading your VTC at a loss. Then this same situation will happen again when converting the BTC to LTC. So again a bit of a lottery you may gain or lose some of your mined coins value depending on the exchange rate between the coins at the time.
9. Add more Cryptonight coins please. They are apparently working on adding new coins like Electroneum.
10. Why can't I auto-exchange BTC? My theory is that it is because BTC is not mined on MPH, remember the coins are sent to the exchange when they hit a certain amount in order to make it efficient. Because BTC is not mined on MPH it would not be efficient to exchange BTC to other coins once it has been credited to your account.
11. Do I need a wallet for each coin I mine? How do I set-up a wallet? No, only the coin(s) you want to get paid in. Click on coins pool on MPH and you will see a wallet option Add the correct address for each coin you want to be paid in, note you cannot use another coins address or you risk losing your coins. For example you should not put your Bitcoin address into your Litecoin wallet address section.
12. My wallet address keeps on changing, do I need to keep updating my wallet address? Take from Coinbase: This is done to protect your privacy, so that a third-party can not view all other transactions associated with your account simply by using a blockchain explorer to look-up an address they know to be yours. All addresses that have been generated for your account will remain associated with your account forever. They are safe to re-use to receive future payments, but for the prior stated reasons, we recommend using a unique address for all transactions.
13.Is there a easy way I can track my Profits/Hashrate/Workers? Yes credit to JaymZZZ Click Here
14. I click on manage wallet from the balances menu and enter my account number, I get the error saying Failed to update your account: Invalid coin address. Make sure you are adding the address to the correct coin. A bitcoin address for example should only be added to the bitcoin wallet, it should not be added to any other wallet. (Reference question 11)
15. Is there a fee for auto-exchange? Yes 0.2%
1. I do not want to mine that algo, I turn it off but it still mines it! Go to online services, edit, change profit switching from yes to no
2. Why is it mining something less profitable? Make sure you go to tools and then benchmark Make sure you right click and save hashrate occasionally it will improve your profit switching over time.
3. I can't get the miner to run? Did you exclude it from anti-virus? You may need to reinstall. Uninstall then in search bar type in %localappdata%\awesomeminer (delete this folder) Type in %appdata% go to awesome miner folder and delete this one as well Reinstall awesomeminer Do not run aweseomminer Go to anti-virus and exclude all folders with awesomeminer (including the ones in the local and appdata folders)
5. Can I do anything to make improvements? puch0021:You can use VertMiner (which is what is used by OCM) to increase your hash rate compared to AwesomeMiner's default CCminer. You have to choose it for Lyra instead of CC miner. See: http://www.awesomeminer.com/help/managedsoftware.aspx Download Vertminer and extract software. Go to awesomeminer's options -> managed software -> add new user defined mining software: Type in VertMiner for description, full compatibility mode, and compatible software as CCminer. Everything in the algorithm should be disabled expect Lyra2ReV2 which should be enabled. Double click in under defined command line argument and add lyra2v2 as text. Click ok. Go to profit profiles in awesome miner. Select nvidia GPU and edit. In the mining software list there should be a new VertMiner entry. Check this box to enable it. Then click configure and then under path click browse. Click local. Select the Vertminer folder you previously made. Now whenever lyra is called for, vertminer should be used. If you try to bench mark with this enabled, it will fail but it works for mining. You can then use your mining results to manually edit your profit profile value for Lyra2REv2 (that was otherwise has the old value for ccminer.) On my 1060 it went from 21 to 22.8. Keep in mind vertminer takes 2% dev fees but it still works out to be faster than cc miner. let me know if this was any help! I used one click miners vertminer since it was already installed.
6. Whenever Awesome Miner starts on a new algo and opens new instances of the CLI miner application/s, the window steal the focus from whatever you're doing. Anyone else super annoyed by this? Anyone know of a way to prevent this? Stop mining, click more, properties, environment, console window mode, hide window, start mining again.
1. I see a yellow stripe wich says multipoolminer is between 7% and 17% more profitable, which is nice. under this strip I see 2 lines with miner, BTC and Euro. (in my case) which of those btc values end up on your miningpoolhub balance? or both? NX18:" Neither. Those values are best guesses by that script, hence why beside the dollar figure it shows the +/- variance which sometimes is really high like 25%, meaning that scripts best guess could be wrong by that much" It is showing the 2nd best, If it is not the best at the time it will not show that text and just give you the comparison.
2. It keeps say NiceHash API failed what should I do? You can ignore it or as chillfisch points out that you can just delete the nicehash folder to get rid of this warning.
[META] New to PC Building? - September 2018 Edition
You've heard from all your gaming friends/family or co-workers that custom PCs are the way to go. Or maybe you've been fed up with your HP, Dell, Acer, Gateway, Lenovo, etc. pre-builts or Macs and want some more quality and value in your next PC purchase. Or maybe you haven't built a PC in a long time and want to get back into the game. Well, here's a good place to start.
Make a budget for your PC (e.g., $800, $1000, $1250, $1500, etc.).
Decide what you will use your PC for.
For gaming, decide what games and at what resolution and FPS you want to play at.
For productivity, decide what software you'll need and find the recommended specs to use those apps.
For a bit of both, your PC build should be built on the HIGHEST specs recommended for your applications (e.g., if you only play FortNite and need CPU power for CFD simulations, use specs recommended for CFD).
Here are some rough estimates for builds with entirely NEW parts: 1080p 60FPS ultra-settings modern AAA gaming: ~$1,200 1440p 60FPS high/ultra-settings modern AAA gaming: ~$1,600 1080p 144FPS ultra-settings modern AAA gaming: $2,000 4K 50FPS medium/high-settings modern AAA gaming: > $2,400 It's noted that some compromises (e.g., lower settings and/or resolution) can be made to achieve the same or slightly lower gaming experience within ±15% of the above prices. It's also noted that you can still get higher FPS on older or used PCs by lowering settings and/or resolution AND/OR buying new/used parts to upgrade your system. Make a new topic about it if you're interested. Also note that AAA gaming is different from e-sport games like CSGO, DOTA2, FortNite, HOTS, LoL, Overwatch, R6S, etc. Those games have lower requirements and can make do with smaller budgets.
Revise your budget AND/OR resolution and FPS until both are compatible. Compare this to the recommended requirements of the most demanding game on your list. For older games, you might be able to lower your budget. For others, you might have to increase your budget. It helps to watch gaming benchmarks on Youtube. A good example of what you're looking for is something like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eLxSOoSdjY). Take note of the resolution, settings, FPS, and the specs in the video title/description; ask yourself if the better gaming experience is worth increasing your budget OR if you're okay with lower settings and lowering your budget. Note that you won't be able to see FPS higher than 60FPS for Youtube videos; something like this would have to be seen in-person at a computer shop.
After procuring your parts, it's time to build. Use a good Youtube tutorial like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX0fOUYd8Q) that teach BAPC fundamentals, but always refer to your product manuals or other Youtube tutorials for part-specific instructions like CPU mounting, radiator mounting, CMOS resetting, etc. If it everything still seems overwhelming, you can always pay a computer shop or a friend/family member to build it for you. It might also be smart to look up some first-time building mistakes to avoid:
If you have any other questions, use the search bar first. If it's not there, make a topic.
BAPC News (Last Updated - 2018/09/20)
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-9000-series-cpu-faq,37743.html Intel 9000 CPUs (Coffee Lake Refresh) will be coming out in Q4. With the exception of i9 (8-core, 12 threads) flagship CPUs, the i3, i5, and i7 lineups are almost identical to their Intel 8000 (Coffee Lake) series, but slightly clocked faster. If you are wondering if you should upgrade to the newer CPU on the same tier (e.g., i5-8400 to i5-9400), I don't recommend that you do as you will only see marginal performance increases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDrpsv0QIR0 RTX 2080 and 2080 Ti benchmarks are out; they provide ~10 and ~20 frames better than the 1080 Ti and also feature ray tracing (superior lighting and shadow effects) which is featured in only ~30 games so far (i.e., not supported a lot); effectively, they provide +25% more performance for +70% increased cost. My recommendation is NOT to buy them unless you need it for work or have lots of disposable income. GTX 1000 Pascal series are still relevant in today's gaming specs.
The calculator part. More GHz is analogous to fast fingers number crunching in the calculator. More cores is analogous to having more calculators. More threads is analogous to having more filing clerks piling more work for the calculator to do. Microarchitectures (core design) is analogous to how the internal circuit inside the calculator is designed (e.g., AMD FX series are slower than Intel equivalents even with higher OC'd GHz speeds because the core design is subpar). All three are important in determining CPU speed. In general, higher GHz is more important for gaming now whereas # cores and threads are more important for multitasking like streaming, video editing, and advanced scientific/engineering computations. Core designs from both AMD and Intel in their most recent products are very good now, but something to keep in mind.
The basic concept of overclocking (OCing) is to feed your CPU more power through voltage and hoping it does calculations faster. Whether your parts are good overclockers depends on the manufacturing process of your specific part and slight variations in materials and manufacturing process will result in different overclocking capability ("silicon lottery"). The downside to this is that you can void your warranties because doing this will produce excess heat that will decrease the lifespan of your parts AND that there is a trial-and-error process to finding OC settings that are stable. Unstable OC settings result in computer freezes or random shut-offs from excess heat. OCing will give you extra performance often for free or by investing in a CPU cooler to control your temperatures so that the excess heat will not decrease your parts' lifespans as much. If you don't know how to OC, don't do it.
Intel CPUs have higher GHz than AMD CPUs, which make them better for gaming purposes. However, AMD Ryzen CPUs have more cores and threads than their Intel equivalents. The new parts are AMD Ryzen 3, 5, or 7 2000 series or Intel i3, i5, or i7 8000 series (Coffee Lake). Everything else is outdated. If you want to overclock on an AMD system, know that you can get some moderate OC on a B350/B450 with all CPUs. X370/X470 mobos usually come with better VRMs meant for OCing 2600X, 2700, and 2700X. If you don't know how to OC, know that the -X AMD CPUs have the ability to OC themselves automatically without manually settings. For Intel systems, you cannot OC unless the CPU is an unlocked -K chip (e.g., i3-8350K, i5-8600K, i7-8700K, etc.) AND the motherboard is a Z370 mobo. In general, it is not worth getting a Z370 mobo UNLESS you are getting an i5-8600K and i7-8700K.
CPU and Mobo Compatibility
Note about Ryzen 2000 CPUs on B350 mobos: yes, you CAN pair them up since they use the same socket. You might get an error message on PCPP that says that they might not be compatible. Call the retailer and ask if the mobo you're planning on buying has a "Ryzen 2000 Series Ready" sticker on the box. This SHOULD NOT be a problem with any mobos manufactured after February 2018. Note about Intel 9000 CPUs on B360 / Z370 mobos: same as above with Ryzen 2000 CPUs on B350 or X370 boards.
CPU Cooler (Air / Liquid)
Air or liquid cooling for your CPU. This is mostly optional unless heavy OCing on AMD Ryzen CPUs and/or on Intel -K and i7-8700 CPUs. For more information about air and liquid cooling comparisons, see here:
Part that lets all the parts talk to each other. Comes in different sizes from small to big: mITX, mATX, ATX, and eATX. For most people, mATX is cost-effective and does the job perfectly. If you need more features like extra USB slots, go for an ATX. mITX is for those who want a really small form factor and are willing to pay a premium for it. eATX mobos are like ATX mobos except that they have more features and are bigger - meant for super PC enthusiasts who need the features.
AMD Ryzen CPUs: go for X470s for Ryzen 7 and B450s for everything else. B350s will also work as a sub for B450 mobos and the same can be said for X370s for X470s, but they are being phased out and may require a BIOS update to support the Ryzen 2000 CPUs if it doesn't have a "Ryzen 2000 Series Ready" sticker on the box.
Intel Coffee Lake CPUs: go for Z370s for unlocked -K CPUs and B360s for everything else.
If you are NOT OCing, pick whatever is cheap and meets your specs. I recommend ASUS or MSI because they have RMA centres in Canada in case it breaks whereas other parts are outside of Canada like in the US. If you are OCing, then you need to look at the quality of the VRMs because those will greatly influence the stability and lifespan of your parts.
Part that keeps Windows and your software active. Currently runs on the DDR4 platform for new builds. Go for dual channel whenever possible. Here's a breakdown of how much RAM you need:
2x4GB = 8GB is the minimum recommended
2x8GB = 16GB recommended for gaming
2x16GB+ for workstations
AMD Ryzen CPUs get extra FPS for faster RAM speeds (ideally 3200MHz) in gaming when paired with powerful video cards like the GTX 1070. Intel Coffee Lake CPUs use up a max of 2667MHz for B360 mobos. Higher end Z370 mobos can support 4000 - 4333MHz RAM depending on the mobo, so make sure you shop carefully! It's noted that RAM prices are highly inflated because of the smartphone industry and possibly artificial supply shortages. For more information: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/263031-ram-prices-roof-stuck-way
Part that store your files in the form of SSDs and HDDs.
Solid State Drives (SSDs)
SSDs are incredibly quick, but are expensive per TB; they are good for booting up Windows and for reducing loading times for gaming. For an old OEM pre-built, upgrading the PC with an SSD is the single greatest speed booster you can do to your system. For most people, you want to make sure the SSD you get is NOT DRAM-less as these SSDs do not last as long as their DRAM counterparts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybIXsrLCgdM). It is also noted that the bigger the capacity of the SSD, the faster they are. SSDs come in four forms:
2.5" SATA III
M.2 NVME PCI-e
The 2.5" SATA form is cheaper, but it is the old format with speeds up to 550MB/s. M.2 SATA SSDs have the same transfer speeds as 2.5" SATA SSDs since they use the SATA interface, but connect directly to the mobo without a cable. It's better for cable management to get an M.2 SATA SSD over a 2.5" SATA III SSD. M.2 PCI-e SSDs are the newest SSD format and transfer up to 4GB/s depending on the PCI-e lanes they use (e.g., 1x, 2x, 4x, etc.). They're great for moving large files (e.g., 4K video production). For more info about U.2 drives, see this post (https://www.reddit.com/bapccanada/comments/8jxfqs/meta_new_to_pc_building_may_2018_edition/dzqj5ks/). Currently more common for enterprise builds, but could see some usage in consumer builds.
Hard Disk Drives (HDDs)
HDDs are slow with transfer speeds of ~100MB/s, but are cheap per TB compared to SSDs. We are now at SATA III speeds, which have a max theoretical transfer rate of 600MB/s. They also come in 5400RPM and 7200RPM forms. 5400RPM uses slightly less power and are cheaper, but aren't as fast at dealing with a large number of small files as 7200RPM HDDs. When dealing with a small number of large files, they have roughly equivalent performance. It is noted that even a 10,000RPM HDD will still be slower than an average 2.5" SATA III SSD.
SSHDs are hybrids of SSDs and HDDs. Although they seem like a good combination, it's much better in all cases to get a dedicated SSD and a dedicated HDD instead. This is because the $/speed better for SSDs and the $/TB is better for HDDs. The same can be said for Intel Optane. They both have their uses, but for most users, aren't worth it.
I recommend a 2.5" or M.2 SATA ≥ 250GB DRAM SSD and a 1TB or 2TB 7200RPM HDD configuration for most users for a balance of speed and storage capacity.
Part that runs complex calculations in games and outputs to your monitor and is usually the most expensive part of the budget. The GPU you pick is dictated by the gaming resolution and FPS you want to play at. In general, all video cards of the same product name have almost the same non-OC'd performance (e.g., Asus Dual-GTX1060-06G has the same performance as the EVGA 06G-P4-6163-KR SC GAMING). The different sizes and # fans DO affect GPU OCing capability, however. The most important thing here is to get an open-air video card, NOT a blower video card (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0domMRFG1Rw). The blower card is meant for upgrading pre-builts where case airflow is limited. For cost-performance, go for the NVIDIA GTX cards because of the cryptomining industry that has inflated AMD RX cards. Bitcoin has taken a -20% hit since January's $10,000+ as of recently, but the cryptomining industry is still ongoing. Luckily, this means prices have nearly corrected itself to original MSRP in 2016. In general:
Part that houses your parts and protects them from its environment. Should often be the last part you choose because the selection is big enough to be compatible with any build you choose as long as the case is equal to or bigger than the mobo form factor. Things to consider: aesthetics, case airflow, cable management, material, cooling options (radiators or # of fan spaces), # fans included, # drive bays, toolless installation, power supply shroud, GPU clearance length, window if applicable (e.g., acrylic, tempered glass), etc. It is recommended to watch or read case reviews on Youtube to get an idea of a case's performance in your setup.
Part that runs your PC from the wall socket. Never go with an non-reputable/cheap brand out on these parts as low-quality parts could damage your other parts. Recommended branded PSUs are Corsair, EVGA, Seasonic, and Thermaltake, generally. For a tier list, see here (https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/).
Wattage depends on the video card chosen, if you plan to OC, and/or if you plan to upgrade to a more powerful PSU in the future. Here's a rule of thumb for non-OC wattages that meet NVIDIA's recommendations:
1050 Ti: 300W
1060 3GB/6GB: 400W
1070 / 1070 Ti: 500W
1080 Ti: 600W
There are also PSU wattage calculators that you can use to estimate your wattage. How much wattage you used is based on your PC parts, how much OCing you're doing, your peripherals (e.g., gaming mouse and keyboard), and how long you plan to leave your computer running, etc. It is noted that these calculators use conservative estimates, so use the outputted wattage as a baseline of how much you need. Here are the calculators (thanks, VitaminDeity).
Pick ONE calculator to use and use the recommended wattage, NOT recommended product, as a baseline of what wattage you need for your build. Note that Cooler Master and Seasonic use the exact calculator as Outervision. For more details about wattage, here are some reference videos:
You might also see some info about modularity (non-modular, semi-modular, or fully-modular). These describe if the cables will come connected to the PSU or can be separated of your own choosing. Non-modular PSUs have ALL of the cable connections attached to the PSU with no option to remove unneeded cables. Semi-modular PSUs have separate cables for HDDs/SSDs and PCI-e connectors, but will have CPU and mobo cables attached. Modular PSUs have all of their cables separate from each other, allowing you to fully control over cable management. It is noted that with decent cooling and airflow in your case, cable management has little effect on your temperatures (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDCMMf-_ASE).
80+ Efficiency Ratings
As for ratings (80+, 80+ bronze, 80+ gold, 80+ platinum), these are the efficiencies of your PSU. Please see here for more information. If you look purely on electricity costs, the 80+ gold PSUs will be more expensive than 80+ bronze PSUs for the average Canadian user until a breakeven point of 6 years (assuming 8 hours/day usage), but often the better performance, longer warranty periods, durable build quality, and extra features like fanless cooling is worth the extra premium. In general, the rule of thumb is 80+ bronze for entry-level office PCs and 80+ gold for mid-tier or higher gaming/workstation builds. If the price difference between a 80+ bronze PSU and 80+ gold PSU is < 20%, get the 80+ gold PSU!
Warranties should also be looked at when shopping for PSUs. In general, longer warranties also have better PSU build quality. In general, for 80+ bronze and gold PSU units from reputable brands:
These guys are engineering experts who take apart PSUs, analyze the quality of each product, and provide an evaluation of the product. Another great website is http://www.orionpsudb.com/, which shows which PSUs are manufactured by different OEMs.
Operating System (OS)
The most common OS. You can download the ISO here (https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10). For instructions on how to install the ISO from a USB drive, see here (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/install-windows-from-a-usb-flash-drive) or watch a video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLfnuE1unS8). For most users, go with the 64-bit version. If you purchase a Windows 10 retail key (i.e., you buy it from a retailer or from Microsoft directly), keep in mind that you are able to transfer it between builds. So if you're building another PC for the 2nd, 3rd, etc. time, you can reuse the key for those builds PROVIDED that you deactivate your key before installing it on your new PC. These keys are ~$120. However, if you have an OEM key (e.g., pre-builts), that key is tied specifically to your mobo. If you ever decide to upgrade your mobo on that pre-built PC, you might have to buy a new Windows 10 license. For more information, see this post (https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/feature/windows/windows-10-oem-or-retail-3665849/). The cheaper Windows 10 keys you can find on Kinguin are OEM keys; activating and deactivating these keys may require phoning an automated Microsoft activation line. Most of these keys are legitimate and cost ~$35, although Microsoft does not intend for home users to obtain this version of it. Buyer beware. The last type of key is a volume licensing key. They are licensed in large volumes to corporate or commercial usage. You can find lots of these keys on eBay for ~$10, but if the IT department who manages these keys audit who is using these keys or if the number of activations have exceeded the number allotted on that one key, Microsoft could block that key and invalidate your license. Buyer beware. For more information on differentiating between all three types of keys, see this page (https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/49586-determine-if-windows-license-type-oem-retail-volume.html). If money is tight, you can get Windows 10 from Microsoft and use a trial version of it indefinitely. However, there will be a watermark in the bottom-right of your screen until you activate your Windows key.
If you're interested in using MacOS, look into Hackintosh builds. This will allow you to run MacOS to run on PC parts, saving you lots of money. These builds are pretty picky about part compatibility, so you might run into some headaches trying to go through with this. For more information, see the following links:
Please note that the cost-performance builds will change daily because PC part prices change often! Some builds will have excellent cost-performance one day and then have terrible cost-performance the next. If you want to optimize cost-performance, it is your responsibility to do this if you go down this route! Also, DO NOT PM me with PC build requests! It is in your best interests to make your own topic so you can get multiple suggestions and input from the community rather than just my own. Thanks again.
Here are some sample builds that are reliable, but may not be cost-optimized builds. These builds were created on September 9, 2018; feel free to "edit this part list" and create your own builds.
Updated sample builds to include both AMD and Intel builds
Sorry for the lack of updates. I recently got a new job where I work 12 hours/day for 7 days at a time out of the city. What little spare time I have is spent on grad school and the gym instead of gaming. So I've been pretty behind on the news and some might not be up-to-date as my standards would have been with less commitments. If I've made any mistakes, please understand it might take a while for me to correct them. Thank you!
Hi, it’s some weeks that I’m getting into Monero and I really see a great future for it. My problem is that I have a very low budget so my mining capability is a joke (around 80 h/s). I cannot help this coin to grow by mining it, so I’m making this FAQ hoping that can be useful for new users. If you want to support me, the tip jar is at the end of this post. Thank you!
I noticed a lot of confusion around Monero. Many of the most asked question are basically the same , so I collected some of them from /monero, /moneromining and monero.stackexchange and I made this Monero Faq. Please feel free to suggest any new frequently asked question or correction/modification/ (also about the grammar, my english is not very good), i’d like to keep this post updated.
Minergate is known for being linked to Bytecoin (read here and here ) and many users are noticing lower or differences in hashrates when using other miners (just make a research using the word “minergate” here on reddit). don’t be fooled by the nice graphical interface.
Upgrading from an FX-8350 to a R7-1700. Just a bit about me – I have been building computers since the mid 80’s. I missed the 8-inch floppy disk era, but came on board when dual 5.25” was considered mainstream and a 10-megabyte full-height HDD was the mark of a power user. The first computer I built for my own enjoyment was an AMD X5-133 (a factory overclocked 486 faster than the Pentium-75), and I’ve used a wide variety of systems since then, including a Pentium Pro-200 which served me well in college and a K6-2 which I took to quite a few LAN parties. While I’ve always had Intel notebooks, my PC’s have been AMD for quite some time now. I decided to upgrade my current main machine, which is an FX-8350 with a mild 4.4Ghz overclock. I was using 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3-1600 and a Sapphire Radeon Fury Nitro. While I know the R5-1600x would be a better bet for a pure gaming build, I have a soft spot for 8-core machines. I had been tempted to pull the trigger on an i7-7700k for a while, but the timing never worked out. But when I found the R7-1700 at a deep discount and an X370 motherboard on the shelf next to it – I couldn’t resist the siren call of a new build. Here are my thoughts about the process: AM4 is physically the same as AM3 from a build perspective, except for the mounting holes. I don’t know what was so important about making the holes have different offsets, but this makes it much more difficult to get quality cooling. Not all manufacturers have brackets yet, and I’m still waiting on Cooler Master to release the brackets for my Siedon 240. The new motherboard feels very different from my AM3 board. My FX-8350 sat on an ASUS M5A99FX Pro R2.0. It was, for lack of a better word, a very workstation-ish board. 4 PCIx16 slots, 10x USB ports (2 of the USB 3.0), triple USB 2.0 front panel headers (and a USB 3.0 front panel header as well), eSATA on the rear panel, beefy VRM and Northbridge cooling, Toslink output for audio, and so on. The board itself is full of tiny components, support chips, and ports. Granted, many of these connectors are outdated (eSATA and USB2.0), and the PCIe is only 2.0 instead of current-gen 3.0, but there is a LOT of connectivity. Few people paired an FX chip with triple of quad-GPU for gaming, but I know a fair number of people used these for bitcoin mining back before there was widespread ASIC support and back then GPU mining was the most cost-effective way to mint cryptocurrency. Extra PCIe slots could be used for dedicated video capture, PCI-based storage, a RAID card, etc... Having 4 full-size slots allows this kind of flexibility. The new motherboard is an Asrock Fatal1ty x370 Gaming K4. It does not feel very workstation-ish at all. It has only two 16x PCIe slots (and when they are both in use they are only 8x), 8 USB ports on the rear panel, and a much less “busy” motherboard. Very few support chips litter its surface. Instead of a workstation component, it feels much more like a luxury consumer product. This is not a bad thing – just something I noticed while building the system. The rear IO shield is red and black to match its gaming aesthetic, it includes things like premium audio (including a very nice headphone amplifier for the front panel connectors), and while it only has 8x USB ports on the back, 6 of them are USB 3.0 and two of them (including a type-C connector) are USB 3.1 gen2. It includes RGB LED’s under the chipset heatsink and three separate RGB LED controller ports (one of which is used for the boxed cooler), Intel gigabit Ethernet, and dual M.2 slots (one of which connected directly to the CPU). It is very different in “feel” from the older ASUS board, even down to things like a shroud for the external connectors and metal-reinforced PCI slots. I must say, its more aggressive appearance and near-empty areas appeal to me. It does, however, funnel the builder into a particular configuration: limited fast storage through the M.2 slots, slow(er) storage through the 6x SATA ports, all external devices should be USB 3. Personally, these limitations didn’t restrict me for this build, since that was how I was going to set it up anyway, but the fewer connectivity choices might cause some pause for others. The only thing I don’t like about this board is the 20 second POST times. 20 seconds every time. Resuming from sleep is very fast, just reboots are slow. That’s really it. I have no substantive complaints other than that – well, and the memory speed limitations – more on that below. The Wraith Spire cooler is without doubt the best looking box cooler I’ve ever seen. The symmetrical cylinder look, combined with the LED logo and RGB ring are very striking. I can see why many people have asked to order one, though I think for the 1700X and 1800X they are better off without it. I’ll explain why further down. Initial hardware setup was very easy. I was able to flash to the newest 2.0 BIOS without any hassle using a DOS USB flash boot drive. The 2.0 BIOS has the newest AGESA code from AMD, as well as support for the R5 processors and better DDR4 compatibility. I didn’t want to cheap out on RAM since apparently Ryzen is sensitive to DDR4 speeds for the latency between cores. I bought the cheapest 16GB DDR4-3200 kit I could find (the EVGA SuperSC 2x8GB), for which I paid $115. While I was not able to get it to boot at 3200, I could get 2933 simply by activating XMP, then manually changing the speed from 3200 to 3000. I then tested it with MemTest86 for two complete cycles, which it passed without errors. I have encountered zero memory issues with these RAM sticks running at 2933. Since this motherboard does not officially support DDR4-3200 at all, I figure this is a good outcome. I am curious to know whether anyone has gotten 3200 on this board – that is, whether the lack of 3200 memory on Asrock’s QVL is a marketing issue or an actual hardware limitation – but I didn’t want to spend nearly double that amount in order to get AM4 verified memory (G.Skill’s FlareX), and 2966 seemed fast enough from the benchmark results I had read. My old setup had a Samsung 850 EVO 256gb SATA6 drive as the primary boot/gaming drive. It seemed plenty fast but it had become too small for my needs, so this seemed like a good opportunity to buy a new SSD. I originally thought the NVMe drives would be out of my price range, but I bought the Intel 600p 512GB drive for only $10 more than I would have paid for a premium SATA6 drive. Though the 600p is without doubt the SLOWEST NVMe drive out there, it has 3x the read speed as the SATA6 drives, and most of what I am doing with it is trying to get quicker load times. If I was using it for professional workloads (as a video editing scratch drive, for example), I would need much higher sustained write speeds and then Samsung would be the obvious answer. I just didn’t want to spend an extra $80 on write performance that I’d never notice, and the 600p has been an excellent boot/gaming drive. Ok, back to the Wraith Spire. I tend to have bad luck with the silicon lottery. My FX-8350 was not able to be stable above 4.4Ghz with reasonable temperatures. I was hoping I would be able to get better results from the R7-1700, since general reports indicated that it overclocked well. Unfortunately, it is difficult to tell how good of an overclock I am getting since I can find no good information about maximum recommended temperatures for this chip. Some people say 75c is the maximum safe temp. Others say 75c is a fine everyday 24/7 temp. Others say they are running it at 80c all the time without any issues at all. Steve at Techspot was getting 88c and 90c when overclocking the 1600X and 1500X using the stock coolers and without any instability – were those dangerous temps or totally fine? Nobody seems to know. I like my overclocks to be set-and-forget. I want to get it dialed in and then leave it for years without worrying that it will burn up or degrade or that in this or that application I have to turn back to stock speeds because of the thermals. Since I don’t know what max safe thermals are, I just have to guess based on stock thermals. For stock speeds, the Wraith Spire does a good job. It is very quiet, and after a few BIOS fan-curve tweaks, it keeps the chip around 35-38 at idle, and around 68-70 on Prime95 (Small FFT, for maximum temperature generation). Incidentally, it also hits 70 if I run Cinebench a bunch of times in a row as well, so I don’t consider the Small FFT test to be totally unrealistic for the load this chip might encounter. From what I can tell, these are good normal temps. I can get 3.5Ghz by simply changing the multiplier and leaving the voltage at stock. This gives Cinebench numbers around the 1550 mark (roughly 6900k levels). Prime95 shows a modest boost in temperatures of 3-4 degrees C, and was stable even for several hours. If I push it to 3.6Ghz at stock voltage the system is unstable. At 3.7Ghz (the 1700’s boost speed for single-threaded loads) it is stable only if I give it 1.3v. While that is a totally fine voltage (AMD recommends up to 1.35v for 24/7), the Wraith Spire cannot handle a Prime95 Small FFT load anymore. I shut down the test and reverted the OC when the CPU read 89c. Given the fact that the Spire was meant to cool a 65w chip (and so probably is rated at no more than 85-95w), this is not a terribly surprising temperature – I wish I knew if it was dangerous. I have no doubt that a 240mm radiator or even a decent tower cooler will be more than enough to cool down my 3.7Ghz R7-1700. I am a little jealous of the people who just set the multiplier to 3700 and are good to go – lower voltages probably mean the Spire would be enough. But for me, it was not to be. I was halfway tempted to see at what temperature the chip would reduce its clock speed, but I didn’t want to burn up a chip I had just bought – might as well wait until I get bigger and better cooling to OC it to the 3.8-3.9 I hope it will reach. Other than the OC temps it has been smooth sailing. Gaming feels more fluid than with the FX, even in games that I always thought were GPU-limited and/or running at 60fps with VSYNC on. Especially games that are sensitive to single-core performance (Heroes of the Storm is my latest addiction) there is a definite boost in 1% low and 0.1% low FPS. I have been using the Ryzen Balanced power plan from AMD and it seems to do a fantastic job keeping temps low when idle and letting the cores ramp up really fast when needed. I need to test whether the lack of core parking prevents it from hitting the 3.7Ghz boost as much as the regular Balanced plan allows. I think a simple CineBench single-thread comparison will do the trick. I also tried streaming a bit – and it was able to generate 1080p60fps at x264-medium settings without being noticeable while in game. Later I edited some video of my kids – the final render speed was SOOOO fast. I am, on the whole, very happy with my upgrade. I get better single-core performance, much much better multi-core performance, along with faster disk speeds, and a more modern platform (with RGB lighting, M.2, USB 3.1, etc…). Now if only I could find out appropriate temperatures…..
Alright, I keep seeing you fucks talk about how "Bitcoin is going to make Nvidia/AMD go to the moon". I'm going to walk all you fucks through bitcoin, crypto currencies, and how they effect the GPU market. What is Bitcoin? Bitcoin is a decentralized ledger. That's pretty much it. A set number of bitcoin is generated per block, and each block is solved when a resulting hash is found for the corresponding proof of work. The difficulty is adjusted periodically based on a formula, meaning that as hash rate rises and falls, the number of bitcoins produced per day is roughly the same. What does Bitcoin have to do with AMD and Nvidia? Fucking nothing. Bitcoin is mined on proprietary hardware called Application-specific Integrated Circuits (ASICs). Neither AMD or Nvidia produce these. Why does everyone keep talking about Bitcoin and AMD then? Because they're fucking retarded and you're listening to retards. Bitcoin runs on the SHA-256 Hashing Function which people have custom hardware for. The Crypto driving GPU sales is ETHEREUM, NOT BITCOIN What the fuck is Ethereum then? Don't worry about it. It's for smug assholes who are too edgy for Bitcoin. All you need to know is it runs on a different Hashing function than Bitcoin, so if you weren't a retard you'd probably realize that the proprietary hardware I talked about earlier won't work with it. Currently Ethereum is being mined the same way Bitcoin was when it first started; on GPUs. When are you going to tell me what to buy Shut the fuck up, learn something or kill your self. How many GPUs are being used to mine currently? Currently the Ethereum Hash Rate is 73,000 GH/s. For upcoming earnings, we should instead look at the period from April to June. April 1st shows a network hash rate of 16,500 GH/s, and June 31st shows 59,200 GH/s, meaning the network hash rate increased by 42,700 GH/s for this upcoming earnings report quarter. I've linked a decent benchmark for GPU hashrate . You should notice that all of these are quoted in MH/s, versus the Network reporting in GH/s; there are ALOT of fucking GPUs running on the network. A top of the line 1080 puts out about 20-25 MH/s, a good Radeon card does about 30. As a rough estimate, lets assume that the average card mining Ethereum currently produces about 25 MH/s. 42,700GH/s / 25MH/s means that there are 1.7 MILLION more GPUs currently mining ethereum than there were at the beginning of Q1. Based on my personal observations being involved in this, AMD is actually taking a majority market share of the sold cards just due to their superior performance compared to Nvidia's 1080s, and I'd estimate that About 50-60% of the cards currently mining Ethereum are AMD Radeons. What does this all mean? AMD are selling their highest margin video cards faster than they can produce them, and at ~250$ a pop with 50%-60% market capture AMD will have sold roughly 200-300 million dollars more in video cards than they did last quarter. AMD quarterly revenue last reported was just under 1 Billion. This is a 20-30% increase in revenue from last quarter, where Ethereum Hash Rate only increased by about 10,000GH/s. Even assuming a modest 30% margin for their video cards, AMD will still have almost 60 million in unexpected earnings this quarter due to crypto mining, which translates to about .06-.1 per share in earnings. tl;dr Ethereum will make AMD beat revenue by 20-30%. BUY AMD YOU CUCKS.
Console gaming is hardly different from PC gaming, and much of what people say about PC gaming to put it above console gaming is often wrong.
I’m not sure about you, but for the past few years, I’ve been hearing people go on and on about PCs "superiority" to the console market. People cite various reasons why they believe gaming on a PC is “objectively” better than console gaming, often for reasons related to power, costs, ease-of-use, and freedom. …Only problem: much of what they say is wrong. There are many misconceptions being thrown about PC gaming vs Console gaming, that I believe need to be addressed. This isn’t about “PC gamers being wrong,” or “consoles being the best,” absolutely not. I just want to cut through some of the stuff people use to put down console gaming, and show that console gaming is incredibly similar to PC gaming. I mean, yes, this is someone who mainly games on console, but I also am getting a new PC that I will game on as well, not to mention the 30 PC games I already own and play. I’m not particularly partial to one over the other. Now I will mainly be focusing on the PlayStation side of the consoles, because I know it best, but much of what I say will apply to Xbox as well. Just because I don’t point out many specific Xbox examples, doesn’t mean that they aren’t out there.
“PCs can use TVs and monitors.”
This one isn’t so much of a misconception as it is the implication of one, and overall just… confusing. This is in some articles and the pcmasterrace “why choose a PC” section, where they’re practically implying that consoles can’t do this. I mean, yes, as long as the ports of your PC match up with your screen(s) inputs, you could plug a PC into either… but you could do the same with a console, again, as long as the ports match up. I’m guessing the idea here is that gaming monitors often use Displayport, as do most dedicated GPUs, and consoles are generally restricted to HDMI… But even so, monitors often have HDMI ports. In fact, PC Magazine has just released their list of the best gaming monitors of 2017, and every single one of them has an HDMI port. A PS4 can be plugged into these just as easily as a GTX 1080. I mean, even if the monitoTV doesn’t have HDMI or AV to connect with your console, just use an adaptor. If you have a PC with ports that doesn’t match your monitoTV… use an adapter. I don’t know what the point of this argument is, but it’s made a worrying amount of times.
“On PC, you have a wide range of controller options, but on console you’re stuck with the standard controller."
Are you on PlayStation and wish you could use a specific type of controller that suits your favorite kind of gameplay? Despite what some may believe, you have just as many options as PC. Want to play fighting games with a classic arcade-style board, featuring the buttons and joystick? Here you go! Want to get serious about racing and get something more accurate and immersive than a controller? Got you covered. Absolutely crazy about flying games and, like the racers, want something better than a controller? Enjoy! Want Wii-style motion controls? Been around since the PS3. If you prefer the form factor of the Xbox One controller but you own a PS4, Hori’s got you covered. And of course, if keyboard and mouse it what keeps you on PC, there’s a PlayStation compatible solution for that. Want to use the keyboard and mouse that you already own? Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Of course, these aren’t isolated examples, there are plenty of options for each of these kind of controllers. You don’t have to be on PC to enjoy alternate controllers.
“On PC you could use Steam Link to play anywhere in your house and share games with others.”
PS4 Remote play app on PC/Mac, PSTV, and PS Vita. PS Family Sharing. Using the same PSN account on multiple PS4s/Xbox Ones and PS3s/360s, or using multiple accounts on the same console. In fact, if multiple users are on the same PS4, only one has to buy the game for both users to play it on that one PS4. On top of that, only one of them has to have PS Plus for both to play online (if the one with PS Plus registers the PS4 as their main system). PS4 Share Play; if two people on separate PS4s want to play a game together that only one of them owns, they can join a Party and the owner of the game can have their friend play with them in the game. Need I say more?
“Gaming is more expensive on console.”
Part one, the Software This is one that I find… genuinely surprising. There’s been a few times I’ve mentioned that part of the reason I chose a PS4 is for budget gaming, only to told that “games are cheaper on Steam.” To be fair, there are a few games on PSN/XBL that are more expensive than they are on Steam, so I can see how someone could believe this… but apparently they forgot about disks. Dirt Rally, a hardcore racing sim game that’s… still $60 on all 3 platforms digitally… even though its successor is out.
See my point? Often times the game is cheaper on console because of the disk alternative that’s available for practically every console-available game. Even when the game is brand new. Dirt 4 - Remember that Dirt Rally successor I mentioned?
Yes, you could either buy this relatively new game digitally for $60, or just pick up the disk for a discounted price. And again, this is for a game that came out 2 months ago, and even it’s predecessor’s digital cost is locked at $60. Of course, I’m not going to ignore the fact that Dirt 4 is currently (as of writing this) discounted on Steam, but on PSN it also happens to be discounted for about the same amount. Part 2: the Subscription Now… let’s not ignore the elephant in the room: PS Plus and Xbox Gold. Now these would be ignorable, if they weren’t required for online play (on the PlayStation side, it’s only required for PS4, but still). So yes, it’s still something that will be included in the cost of your PS4 or Xbox One/360, assuming you play online. Bummer, right? Here’s the thing, although that’s the case, although you have to factor in this $60 cost with your console, you can make it balance out, at worst, and make it work out for you as a budget gamer, at best. As nice as it would be to not have to deal with the price if you don’t want to, it’s not like it’s a problem if you use it correctly. Imagine going to a new restaurant. This restaurant has some meals that you can’t get anywhere else, and fair prices compared to competitors. Only problem: you have to pay a membership fee to have the sides. Now you can have the main course, sit down and enjoy your steak or pasta, but if you want to have a side to have a full meal, you have to pay an annual fee. Sounds shitty, right? But here’s the thing: not only does this membership allow you to have sides with your meal, but it also allows you to eat two meals for free every month, and also gives you exclusive discounts for other meals, drinks, and desserts. Let’s look at PS Plus for a minute: for $60 per year, you get:
2 free PS4 games, every month
2 free PS3 games, every month
1 PS4/PS3 and Vita compatible game, and 1 Vita-only game, every month
Exclusive/Extended discounts, especially during the weekly/seasonal sales (though you don’t need PS Plus to get sales, PS Plus members get to enjoy the best sales)
access to online multiplayer
So yes, you’re paying extra because of that membership, but what you get with that deal pays for it and then some. In fact, let’s ignore the discounts for a minute: you get 24 free PS4 games, 24 free PS3 games, and 12 Vita only + 12 Vita compatible games, up to 72freegames every year. Even if you only one of these consoles, that’s still 24 free games a year. Sure, maybe you get games for the month that you don’t like, then just wait until next month. In fact, let’s look at Just Cause 3 again. It was free for PS Plus members in August, which is a pretty big deal. Why is this significant? Because it’s, again, a $60 digital game. That means with this one download, you’ve balanced out your $60 annual fee. Meaning? Every free game after that is money saved, every discount after that is money saved. And this is a trend: every year, PS Plus will release a game that balances out the entire service cost, then another 23 more that will only add icing to that budget cake. Though, you could just count games as paying off PS Plus until you hit $60 in savings, but still. All in all, PS Plus, and Xbox Gold which offers similar options, saves you money. On top of that, again, you don't need to have these to get discounts, but with these memberships, you get more discounts. Now, I’ve seen a few Steam games go up for free for a week, but what about being free for an entire month? Not to mention that; even if you want to talk about Steam Summer Sales, what about the PSN summer sale, or again, disc sale discounts? Now a lot of research and math would be needed to see if every console gamer would save money compared to every Steam gamer for the same games, but at the very least? The costs will balance out, at worst. Part 3, the Systems
Xbox and PS2: $299
Xbox 360 and PS3: $299 and $499, respectively
Xbox One and PS4: $499 and $399, respectively.
Rounded up a few dollars, that’s $1,000 - $1,300 in day-one consoles, just to keep up with the games! Crazy right? So called budget systems, such a rip-off. Well, keep in mind that the generations here aren’t short. The 6th generation, from the launch of the PS2 to the launch of the next generation consoles, lasted 5 years, 6 years based on the launch of the PS3 (though you could say it was 9 or 14, since the Xbox wasn’t discontinued until 2009, and the PS2 was supported all the way to 2014, a year after the PS4 was released). The 7th gen lasted 7 - 8 years, again depending on whether you count the launch of the Xbox 360 to PS3. The 8th gen so far has lasted 4 years. That’s 17 years that the console money is spread over. If you had a Netflix subscription for it’s original $8 monthly plan for that amount of time, that would be over $1,600 total. And let’s be fair here, just like you could upgrade your PC hardware whenever you wanted, you didn’t have to get a console from launch. Let’s look at PlayStation again for example: In 2002, only two years after its release, the PS2 retail price was cut from $300 to $200. The PS3 Slim, released 3 years after the original, was $300, $100-$200 lower than the retail cost. The PS4? You could’ve either gotten the Uncharted bundle for $350, or one of the PS4 Slim bundles for $250. This all brings it down to $750 - $850, which again, is spread over a decade and a half. This isn’t even counting used consoles, sales, or the further price cuts that I didn’t mention. Even if that still sounds like a lot of money to you, even if you’re laughing at the thought of buying new systems every several years, because your PC “is never obsolete,” tell me: how many parts have you changed out in your PC over the years? How many GPUs have you been through? CPUs? Motherboards? RAM sticks, monitors, keyboards, mice, CPU coolers, hard drives— that adds up. You don’t need to replace your entire system to spend a lot of money on hardware. Even if you weren’t upgrading for the sake of upgrading, I’d be amazed if the hardware you’ve been pushing by gaming would last for about 1/3 of that 17 year period. Computer parts aren’t designed to last forever, and really won’t when you’re pushing them with intensive gaming for hours upon hours. Generally speaking, your components might last you 6-8 years, if you’ve got the high-end stuff. But let’s assume you bought a system 17 years ago that was a beast for it’s time, something so powerful, that even if it’s parts have degraded over time, it’s still going strong. Problem is: you will have to upgrade something eventually. Even if you’ve managed to get this far into the gaming realm with the same 17 year old hardware, I’m betting you didn’t do it with a 17 year Operating System. How much did Windows 7 cost you? Or 8.1? Or 10? Oh, and don’t think you can skirt the cost by getting a pre-built system, the cost of Windows is embedded into the cost of the machine (why else would Microsoft allow their OS to go on so many machines). Sure, Windows 10 was a free upgrade for a year, but that’s only half of it’s lifetime— You can’t get it for free now, and not for the past year. On top of that, the free period was an upgrade; you had to pay for 7 or 8 first anyway. Point is, as much as one would like to say that they didn’t need to buy a new system every so often for the sake of gaming, that doesn’t mean they haven’t been paying for hardware, and even if they’ve only been PC gaming recently, you’ll be spending money on hardware soon enough.
“PC is leading the VR—“
Let me stop you right there. If you add together the total number of Oculus Rifts and HTC Vives sold to this day, and threw in another 100,000 just for the sake of it, that number would still be under the number of PSVR headsets sold. Why could this possibly be? Well, for a simple reason: affordability. The systems needed to run the PC headsets costs $800+, and the headsets are $500 - $600, when discounted. PSVR on the other hand costs $450 for the full bundle (headset, camera, and move controllers, with a demo disc thrown in), and can be played on either a $250 - $300 console, or a $400 console, the latter recommended. Even if you want to say that the Vive and Rift are more refined, a full PSVR set, system and all, could cost just over $100 more than a Vive headset alone. If anything, PC isn’t leading the VR gaming market, the PS4 is. It’s the system bringing VR to the most consumers, showing them what the future of gaming could look like. Not to mention that as the PlayStation line grows more powerful (4.2 TFLOP PS4 Pro, 10 TFLOP “PS5…”), it won’t be long until the PlayStation line can use the same VR games as PC. Either way, this shows that there is a console equivalent to the PC VR options. Sure, there are some games you'd only be able to play on PC, but there are also some games you'd only be able to play on PSVR. …Though to be fair, if we’re talking about VR in general, these headsets don’t even hold a candle to, surprisingly, Gear VR.
“If it wasn’t for consoles holding devs back, then they would be able to make higher quality games.”
This one is based on the idea that because of how “low spec” consoles are, that when a developer has to take them in mind, then they can’t design the game to be nearly as good as it would be otherwise. I mean, have you ever seen the minimum specs for games on Steam? GTA V
Actually, bump up all the memory requirements to 8 GBs, and those are some decent specs, relatively speaking. And keep in mind these are the minimum specs to even open the games. It’s almost as if the devs didn’t worry about console specs when making a PC version of the game, because this version of the game isn’t on console. Or maybe even that the consoles aren’t holding the games back that much because they’re not that weak. Just a hypothesis. But I mean, the devs are still ooobviously having to take weak consoles into mind right? They could make their games sooo much more powerful if they were PC only, right? Right? No. Not even close. iRacing
CPU: Intel Core i3, i5, i7 or better or AMD Bulldozer or better
Memory: 8 GB RAM
GPU: NVidia GeForce 2xx series or better, 1GB+ dedicated video memory / AMD 5xxx series or better, 1GB+ dedicated video memory
These are PC only games. That’s right, no consoles to hold them back, they don’t have to worry about whether an Xbox One could handle it. Yet, they don’t require anything more than the Multiplatform games. Subnautica
So what’s the deal? Theoretically, if developers don’t have to worry about console specs, then why aren’t they going all-out and making games that no console could even dream of supporting? Low-end PCs. What, did you think people only game on Steam if they spent at least $500 on gaming hardware? Not all PC gamers have gaming-PC specs, and if devs close their games out to players who don’t have the strongest of PCs, then they’d be losing out on a pretty sizable chunk of their potential buyers. Saying “devs having to deal with consoles is holding gaming back” is like saying “racing teams having to deal with Ford is holding GT racing back.” A: racing teams don’t have to deal with Ford if they don’t want to, which is probably why many of them don’t, and B: even though Ford doesn’t make the fastest cars overall, they still manage to make cars that are awesome on their own, they don’t even need to be compared to anything else to know that they make good cars. I want to go back to that previous point though, developers having to deal with low-end PCs, because it’s integral to the next point:
“PCs are more powerful, gaming on PC provides a better experience.”
This one isn’t so much of a misconception as it is… misleading. Did you know that according to the Steam Hardware & Software Survey (July 2017) , the percentage of Steam gamers who use a GPU that's less powerful than that of a PS4Slim’s GPU is well over 50%? Things get dismal when compared to the PS4 Pro (Or Xbox One X). On top of that, the percentage of PC gamers who own a Nvidia 10 series card is about 20% (about 15% for the 1060, 1080 and 1070 owners). Now to be fair, the large majority of gamers have CPUs with considerably high clock speeds, which is the main factor in CPU gaming performance. But, the number of Steam gamers with as much RAM or more than a PS4 or Xbox One is less than 50%, which can really bottleneck what those CPUs can handle. These numbers are hardly better than they were in 2013, all things considered. Sure, a PS3/360 weeps in the face of even a $400 PC, but in this day in age, consoles have definitely caught up. Sure, we could mention the fact that even 1% of Steam accounts represents over 1 million accounts, but that doesn’t really matter compared to the 10s of millions of 8th gen consoles sold; looking at it that way, sure the number of Nvidia 10 series owners is over 20 million, but that ignores the fact that there are over 5 times more 8th gen consoles sold than that. Basically, even though PCs run on a spectrum, saying they're more powerful “on average” is actually wrong. Sure, they have the potential for being more powerful, but most of the time, people aren’t willing to pay the premium to reach those extra bits of performance. Now why is this important? What matters are the people who spent the premium cost for premium parts, right? Because of the previous point: PCs don’t have some ubiquitous quality over the consoles, developers will always have to keep low-end PCs in mind, because not even half of all PC players can afford the good stuff, and you have to look at the top quarter of Steam players before you get to PS4-Pro-level specs. If every Steam player were to get a PS4 Pro, it would be an upgrade for over 60% of them, and 70% of them would be getting an upgrade with the Xbox One X. Sure, you could still make the argument that when you pay more for PC parts, you get a better experience than you could with a console. We can argue all day about budget PCs, but a console can’t match up to a $1,000 PC build. It’s the same as paying more for car parts, in the end you get a better car. However, there is a certain problem with that…
“You pay a little more for a PC, you get much more quality.”
The idea here is that the more you pay for PC parts, the performance increases at a faster rate than the price does. Problem: that’s not how technology works. Paying twice as much doesn’t get you twice the quality the majority of the time. For example, let’s look at graphics cards, specifically the GeForce 10 series cards, starting with the GTX 1050.
1.35 GHz base clock
2 GB VRAM
This is our reference, our basis of comparison. Any percentages will be based on the 1050’s specs. Now let’s look at the GTX 1050 Ti, the 1050’s older brother.
1.29 GHz base clock
4 GB VRAM
This is pretty good. You only increase the price by about 27%, and you get an 11% increase in floating point speed and a 100% increase (double) in VRAM. Sure you get a slightly lower base clock, but the rest definitely makes up for it. In fact, according to GPU boss, the Ti managed 66 fps, or a 22% increase in frame rate for Battlefield 4, and a 54% increase in mHash/second in bitcoin mining. The cost increase is worth it, for the most part. But let’s get to the real meat of it; what happens when we double our budget? Surely we should see a massive increase performance, I bet some of you are willing to bet that twice the cost means more than twice the performance. The closest price comparison for double the cost is the GTX 1060 (3 GB), so let’s get a look at that.
1.5 GHz base clock
3 GB VRAM
Well… not substantial, I’d say. About a 50% increase in floating point speed, an 11% increase in base clock speed, and a 1GB decrease in VRAM. For [almost] doubling the price, you don’t get much. Well surely raw specs don’t tell the full story, right? Well, let’s look at some real wold comparisons. Once again, according to GPU Boss, there’s a 138% increase in hashes/second for bitcoin mining, and at 99 fps, an 83% frame rate increase in Battlefield 4. Well, then, raw specs does not tell the whole story! Here’s another one, the 1060’s big brother… or, well, slightly-more-developed twin.
1.5 GHz base clock
6 GB VRAM
Seems reasonable, another $50 for a decent jump in power and double the memory! But, as we’ve learned, we shouldn’t look at the specs for the full story. I did do a GPU Boss comparison, but for the BF4 frame rate, I had to look at Tom’s Hardware (sorry miners, GPU boss didn’t cover the mHash/sec spec either). What’s the verdict? Well, pretty good, I’d say. With 97 FPS, a 79% increase over the 1050— wait. 97? That seems too low… I mean, the 3GB version got 99. Well, let’s see what Tech Power Up has to say... 94.3 fps. 74% increase. Huh. Alright alright, maybe that was just a dud. We can gloss over that I guess. Ok, one more, but let’s go for the big fish: the GTX 1080.
1.6 GHz base clock
8 GB VRAM
That jump in floating point speed definitely has to be something, and 4 times the VRAM? Sure it’s 5 times the price, but as we saw, raw power doesn’t always tell the full story. GPU Boss returns to give us the run down, how do these cards compare in the real world? Well… a 222% (over three-fold) increase in mHash speed, and a 218% increase in FPS for Battlefield 4. That’s right, for 5 times the cost, you get 3 times the performance. Truly, the raw specs don’t tell the full story. You increase the cost by 27%, you increase frame rate in our example game by 22%. You increase the cost by 83%, you increase the frame rate by 83%. Sounds good, but if you increase the cost by 129%, and you get a 79% (-50% cost/power increase) increase in frame rate. You increase it by 358%, and you increase the frame rate by 218% (-140% cost/power increase). That’s not paying “more for much more power,” that’s a steep drop-off after the third cheapest option. In fact, did you know that you have to get to the 1060 (6GB) before you could compare the GTX line to a PS4 Pro? Not to mention that at $250, the price of a 1060 (6GB) you could get an entire PS4 Slim bundle, or that you have to get to the 1070 before you beat the Xbox One X. On another note, let’s look at a PS4 Slim…
800 MHz base clock
8 GB VRAM
…Versus a PS4 Pro.
911 MHz base clock
8 GB VRAM
128% increase in floating point speed, 13% increase in clock speed, for a 25% difference in cost. Unfortunately there is no Battlefield 4 comparison to make, but in BF1, the frame rate is doubled (30 fps to 60) and the textures are taken to 11. For what that looks like, I’ll leave it up to this bloke. Not to even mention that you can even get the texture buffs in 4K. Just like how you get a decent increase in performance based on price for the lower-cost GPUs, the same applies here. It’s even worse when you look at the CPU for a gaming PC. The more money you spend, again, the less of a benefit you get per dollar. Hardware Unboxed covers this in a video comparing different levels of Intel CPUs. One thing to note is that the highest i7 option (6700K) in this video was almost always within 10 FPS (though for a few games, 15 FPS) of a certain CPU in that list for just about all of the games. …That CPU was the lowest i3 (6100) option. The lowest i3 was $117 and the highest i7 was $339, a 189% price difference for what was, on average, a 30% or less difference in frame rate. Even the lowest Pentium option (G4400, $63) was often able to keep up with the i7. The CPU and GPU are usually the most expensive and power-consuming parts of a build, which is why I focused on them (other than the fact that they’re the two most important parts of a gaming PC, outside of RAM). With both, this “pay more to get much more performance” idea is pretty much the inverse of the truth.
“The console giants are bad for game developers, Steam doesn't treat developers as bad as Microsoft or especially Sony.”
Now one thing you might’ve heard is that the PS3 was incredibly difficult for developers to make games for, which for some, fueled the idea that console hardware is difficult too develop on compared to PC… but this ignores a very basic idea that we’ve already touched on: if the devs don’t want to make the game compatible with a system, they don’t have to. In fact, this is why Left 4 Dead and other Valve games aren’t on PS3, because they didn’t want to work with it’s hardware, calling it “too complex.” This didn’t stop the game from selling well over 10 million units worldwide. If anything, this was a problem for the PS3, not the dev team. This also ignores that games like LittleBigPlanet, Grand Theft Auto IV, and Metal Gear Solid 4 all came out in the same year as Left 4 Dead (2008) on PS3. Apparently, plenty of other dev teams didn’t have much of a problem with the PS3’s hardware, or at the very least, they got used to it soon enough. On top of that, when developing the 8th gen consoles, both Sony and Microsoft sought to use CPUs that were easier for developers, which included making decisions that considered apps for the consoles’ usage for more than gaming. On top of that, using their single-chip proprietary CPUs is cheaper and more energy efficient than buying pre-made CPUs and boards, which is far better of a reason for using them than some conspiracy about Sony and MS trying to make devs' lives harder. Now, console exclusives are apparently a point of contention: it’s often said that exclusive can cause developers to go bankrupt. However, exclusivity doesn’t have to be a bad thing for the developer. For example, when Media Molecule had to pitch their game to a publisher (Sony, coincidentally), they didn’t end up being tied into something detrimental to them. Their initial funding lasted for 6 months. From then, Sony offered additional funding, in exchange for Console Exclusivity. This may sound concerning to some, but the game ended up going on to sell almost 6 million units worldwide and launched Media Molecule into the gaming limelight. Sony later bought the development studio, but 1: this was in 2010, two years after LittleBigPlanet’s release, and 2: Media Molecule seem pretty happy about it to this day. If anything, signing up with Sony was one of the best things they could’ve done, in their opinion. Does this sound like a company that has it out for developers? There are plenty of examples that people will use to put Valve in a good light, but even Sony is comparatively good to developers.
“There are more PC gamers.”
The total number of active PC gamers on Steam has surpassed 120 million, which is impressive, especially considering that this number is double that of 2013’s figure (65 million). But the number of monthly active users on Xbox Live and PSN? About 120 million (1, 2) total. EDIT: You could argue that this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, sure, so if you want to, say, compare the monthly number of Steam users to console? Steam has about half of what consoles do, at 67 million. Now, back to the 65 million total user figure for Steam, the best I could find for reference for PlayStation's number was an article giving the number of registered PSN accounts in 2013, 150 million. In a similar 4-year period (2009 - 2013), the number of registered PSN accounts didn’t double, it sextupled, or increased by 6 fold. Considering how the PS4 is already at 2/3 of the number of sales the PS3 had, even though it’s currently 3 years younger than its predecessor, I’m sure this trend is at least generally consistent. For example, let’s look at DOOM 2016, an awesome faced-paced shooting title with graphics galore… Of course, on a single platform, it sold best on PC/Steam. 2.36 million Steam sales, 2.05 million PS4 sales, 1.01 million Xbox One sales. But keep in mind… when you add the consoles sales together, you get over 3 million sales on the 8th gen systems. Meaning: this game was best sold on console. In fact, the Steam sales have only recently surpassed the PS4 sales. By the way VG charts only shows sales for physical copies of the games, so the number of PS4 and Xbox sales, when digital sales are included, are even higher than 3 million. This isn’t uncommon, by the way. Even with the games were the PC sales are higher than either of the consoles, there generally are more console sales total. But, to be fair, this isn’t anything new. The number of PC gamers hasn’t dominated the market, the percentages have always been about this much. PC can end up being the largest single platform for games, but consoles usually sell more copies total. EDIT: There were other examples but... Reddit has a 40,000-character limit.
This isn’t to say that there’s anything wrong with PC gaming, and this isn’t to exalt consoles. I’m not here to be the hipster defending the little guy, nor to be the one to try to put down someone/thing out of spite. This is about showing that PCs and consoles are overall pretty similar because there isn’t much dividing them, and that there isn’t anything wrong with being a console gamer. There isn’t some chasm separating consoles and PCs, at the end of the day they’re both computers that are (generally) designed for gaming. This about unity as gamers, to try to show that there shouldn’t be a massive divide just because of the computer system you game on. I want gamers to be in an environment where specs don't separate us; whether you got a $250 PS4 Slim or just built a $2,500 gaming PC, we’re here to game and should be able to have healthy interactions regardless of your platform. I’m well aware that this isn’t going to fix… much, but this needs to be said: there isn’t a huge divide between the PC and consoles, they’re far more similar than people think. There are upsides and downsides that one has that the other doesn’t on both sides. There’s so much more I could touch on, like how you could use SSDs or 3.5 inch hard drives with both, or that even though PC part prices go down over time, so do consoles, but I just wanted to touch on the main points people try to use to needlessly separate the two kinds of systems (looking at you PCMR) and correct them, to get the point across. I thank anyone who takes the time to read all of this, and especially anyone who doesn’t take what I say out of context. I also want to note that, again, thisisn’t “anti-PC gamer.” If it were up to me, everyone would be a hybrid gamer. Cheers.
Smartphone cpu performance vs x86 CPUs, are smartphone comparable to entry level desktop/netbook/laptop cpu?
Today i was using the geekbench 3 browser to go through the performances of the various snapdragon models (using the list of devices) and when i arrived to the last octa core models i observed that those had more points than intel x86 cpu (for example the atom z3580). Then i searched for normal intel cpu (desktop/laptop) and i saw that while the octa core snapdragon or exynos were around 5000 points many x86 cpus were not. Heck i thought that a pentium 3 1ghz (from 2000) was still faster than smartphone CPUs for non-trivial computations! I'm aware that instruction sets are different, ad hoc processing is different too. For example certain ASICs are monstrous for md5 hash (see bitcoin farms), GPUs are great for certain type of parallel computing, while x86 "normal" CPUs are better at something else. So i searched some benchmark that could really squeeze the processing power of general purposes CPU doing some intensive task that comes from real world problems (so math, physics, etc.). For example computing primes, computing a fractal, testing on sorting algorithms and so on, computing rsa/hashes (for example for crypted transmissions), etc. Unfortunately i did not find anything of the sort, so, does someone else knows if actual smartphone CPUs are really on par with relatively old desktop/laptop CPUs (even just entry level)? The only similar "intensive" situation that i can compare is when i play certain games (ex: racing) that i played also long ago on desktop computers, but the comparison is not really fair because it includes GPU abilities, memory, storage (if the app is big) and most importantly the game itself. edit: people in the thread mention contemporary desktop solution. I think is unlikely that a system on a chip from 2015 can compete with an Intel/amd from 2015. I was meaning more like: does a system on a chip in smartphones of 2016 can outrun x86 CPUs from 2004 for meaningful tasks (math, physics, running webservers, etc.)? CPU from 2006? 2008? etc... edit2: another interesting perspective is to use embedded computers based on Soc, like raspberry. I may ask in /raspberry and then see how the raspberry compare with SoC in smartphones. edit3: i just remember that long ago i looked at the top500.org, they used linpack to test clusters. So i searched for linkpack again and i found a guy that is very fond in tests (great job!). Of course i did not test all the available cpu but to have an idea is ok: http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/linpack%20results.htm In brief for single precision on 100x100 problems: The fastest arm tops at 1400 Mflops, while quite decent desktop x86 cpu are around 1800 Mflops. Of course there are many gaps: which generation of CPU? When? Etc... But the idea is that a snapdragon could be as similar as a 2.4ghz core 2 duo of some years ago (that is nothing poor, it still pretty useful as cpu i would say), with a massive test (optimized or not) is quite surprising. I would have expected the snapdragon 800 to be 20 times slower or more of a relatively old core 2 due CPU for a linpack test.
Please keep in mind that this will be an evolving FAQ and a living document as we progress through our testnet, so check back here often for updates.
What is the objective of the Skywire Public Testnet?
There are several goals we will accomplish with the Skywire Public Testnet. The testnet will be split into several phases. The version running today is the internal version of our testnet, aimed to validate its function and performance. The coming revision will publicize the network, as well as establish a fair economic model reward mechanism for running nodes. This will be based upon analysis of node utilization during testing. This testing will provide us valuable information to design a robust mathematical model for the mainnet so that all nodes on the mainnet will be automatically incentivized under a fair economic model.
What is the function of this version?
Once a user sets up an operational node, they will be able to search for other nodes and be connected to users around the world, breaking down borders and barriers to access global information. Note that any computer can become a node on the network, however, only whitelisted Skyminers (all Official and selected DIY) will be participating in the economic model testing program, and eligible for rewards.
What kind of Skyminers will be whitelisted for the Testnet?
There are three main categories of Skyminers:
Official Skywire Miner
DIY Equivalent Skyminers
Other nodes and hardware
The initial whitelist will include the Official Skyminers that have shipped to users around the globe. These will become the baseline for early DIY Skyminers. Since we are entering into uncharted skies, we want to initially reduce any variables possible and test the network in a controlled manner. We have already been scaling out to include high quality DIY Skyminers with equivalent specifications, and eventually any Skyminer (official or DIY) that reaches the minimum specifications required. Those minimum specifications will be determined during the testnet and released to the Skyfleet community as they become available so stay tuned.
What will be the whitelisting process be like?
First, the Skywire core team will collect the public keys for each node within each Official Skyminer. Since there are 8 nodes in a Skyminer, each will have 8 public keys. These Official Skyminers will be whitelisted once public keys are provided to the Skywire core team. Here is a link to the whitelist submission page DIY Skyminers will be reviewed manually and approved weekly (approximately 50 per week) following the completion of the whitelisting process for the Official Skyminers.
Can DIY Skyminers join the whitelist?
While Official Skyminers will be on the whitelist by default (upon submission and receipt of their public keys), DIY Skyminers will be allowed to join the whitelist based on the benchmark set by the Official Skyminer’s hardware configuration. DIY Skyminers will be required to provide detailed specifications and photos, submitted to the corresponding team for review. Qualified DIY Skyminers will be added into the testnet whitelist. Please remember that only selected DIY miners will be whitelisted. You may refer to the Skywire community on Telegram or the community Skywug forum for more discussions around this topic. The first generation Offiicial Skyminer hardware configuration is as follows: 8 hardware nodes made up of 8 Orange Pi Prime PCB boards 8+1 100Mbps router (custom 16-port OpenWRT in production) 16GB RAM (8 x 2GB DDR3) ARM Cortex-A53 CPU Hexa-core Mali450 GPU LAN Bandwidth: 8 x 1000Mbps 64-bit Linux (Alpine Linux)
What kind of hardware will be able to participate in the Testnet?
Any computer can be added to the Skywire Public Testnet, set up as a node, and use the functions of Skywire. However, only a limited number of machines will be whitelisted (including Official Skyminers and some DIY Skyminers as noted above) and receive rewards during the testing stage. Machines not on the whitelist will still be able to participate in the network and access the full service of the network, however they will not receive rewards.
Is a dedicated router part of the required spec? For example, if someone builds a miner that meets spec with 8 nodes and a switch, but just has it connected directly to their home/ISP Router will they be whitelisted?
They could be whitelisted. Official miner is just a benchmark and DIY Skyminer doesn’t require the exact same setup as the benchmark.
Is there any difference between Official Skyminers and DIY Skyminers?
In the current testnet, only ONE miner is allowed to be whitelisted per IP address. In the future when rewards is proportional to the bandwidth you are producing for the network, any rewards is directly tied to the bandwidth you are producing so you may have any number of miners as you want with a single IP address.
How do I setup the software for my Official Skyminer?
Those who have previously installed a version of Skywire can update directly in the software. (Note: if the update fails, please reinstall it by following the instructions on Github: https://github.com/skycoin/skywire). Please remember that only whitelisted miner will receive rewards at this stage. However, you can still access the same VPN functions with Skywire along with everyone else!
What do we do after installation?
It is simple! All you have to do is keep the node online so that other Skywire nodes can connect to yours, as we perform network tests and do all the heavy lifting from our end. Grab a drink, sit back, relax and enjoy using the new internet :).
What will be the reward mechanism for running nodes?
At the moment, whitelisted miners will require a minimum of 75% up time per month to receive that month's rewards. The reward ratio will be set carefully going forward. We will first need a rigorous dataset as a point of reference and will be adjusting the rate continuously throughout the process as the economic model gets established. It is important to note that in the current testnet, Skycoin is rewarded independent to bandwidth production of your miner. In the future, Coin Hours will be earned instead of Skycoin depending on the bandwidth you are providing to the Skywire network.
Do we get extra rewards for maintaining >75% up-time?
No you will not. Everyone who maintain >75% up-time will receive the same rewards.
What is the mining rewards?
For the first month, the rewards was set as 96 SKY per official miner and 6 SKY per node up to 48 SKY for DIY miners. As we figure out the most optimal economics to incentivise a global meshnet of hardware infrastructure for this new internet, this number will change depending on the growth of our network.
Does Skyminer mine Coin Hours?
Coin Hours is a separate currency produced by Skycoin. Each Skycoin produce 1 Coin Hour every hour. Coin Hour will be used in the future to pay for transactions in the Skycoin economy such as Skywire and Kitty Cash accessories. Once we move onto the main net, Skyminer will produce Coin Hour instead.
How often does the whitelist uptime monitoring refreshes?
It refreshes at the beginning of every month.
Do we need to be whitelisted once we move to the mainnet?
No. Anyone is free to join and start earning by contributing valuable resources (bandwidth, storage and computation) once we are on the mainnet.
When I visit 192.168.0.1 on my browser, I see my own home's router instead of the miner's router. How do I fix this?
There is a conflict in the LAN configuration between your home's router and the Skyminer's router. You need to change the miner's router IP to another IP address OR you can change the miner's router into your own network switch
Is Skycoin node the same as Skywire node?
No. They are a completely separate and independent decentralised network. Skywire node is responsible for sending, receiving and transmitting data. Skycoin node is only for validating transactions and the state of the blockchain much like Bitcoin nodes.
Do I need to leave my computer on once I have configured my Skyminer properly?
No you do not. As long as your home's internet modem is still turned on and providing bandwidth to the router and CPU boards on your Skyminer, your own personal computer doesn't need to be left on. That's the idea of having an independent purpose-built Skyminer.
My Skyminer was turned off because my power went out, will I need to re-register on the whitelist and lose my rewards?
No you will not. Installing Skywire on a Pi is like installing a program on your personal computer. You don't need to reinstall the program every time you turned off your computer.
Will changing the router affect my node's public key?
No it will not. The public key is attached to the software installed on the Pi. If you reinstall the program (eg. reflashing) then you will have a new set of public keys. If you have reflashed after submitting your public keys on the whitelist, you have to contact us to change you public keys otherwise you will not receive your rewards.
I can't log on to the router of my official Skyminer.
Ensure all the networking cables are attached correctly, turn off any wifi and VPN on your computer, ping 192.168.0.1 via the Windows or Mac command prompt interface. If you are able to ping your router than please wait 2 minutes and try again. Contact our community managers for support for more help on the Skywire Telegram
I have set my Skyminer's router's address on WLAN as 192.168.2.104. However, when I tried to access 192.168.2.104:8000 via another computer I am unable to connect?
Port 8000 is an address set for the Manager node's board. It isn't part of the router's address. If you haven't set up the port forwarding correctly, when you try to access from another LAN network (outside of the Skyminer's own LAN), you will not be able to connect to the miner's router. If you are uncertain about how to set up portfowarding rules, contact our helpful Skywire community managers for more support.
What cables do I need for the Miner's WAN port?
The same as your home's internet cable. We recommend CAT 5e or better cables.
I successfully used Skywire to access the internet by using the bandwidth provided by another peer. However after a while, I was unable to continue using the connection and have to reconnect, why is that?
This is normal. If there is a period of bandwidth inactivity, the connection will disconnect automatically. Another reason is that the peer you have connected to is providing a sub-par connection.
How do I know what my mining nodes' IP addresses are?
Enter the Skywire manager interface installed on the Manager node, turn on 'Terminal', and enter the prompt "ifconfig" in the command prompt. It will return with the IP of that exact node you are accessing.
The green lights on all 8 boards are lit. Why do I only see 7 nodes on my Skywire Manager interface?
First check if all 8 lights are lit on the miner's router. If not then check all connections are properly installed. Then use the "ifconfig" method mentioned above to identify exactly which board is not connected. Restart and reflash that SD card and try again.
If someone else has connected to my node, can I be hacked by them?
No they can't. Due to the restrictions set up in the software code, peers are not able to visit anywhere outside of the node they are connected to. __
Where can we learn more about Skywire and join the discussions?
New people please read this. [upvote for visibility please]
I am seeing too many new people come and and getting confused. Litecoin wiki isn't the greatest when it comes to summing up things so I will try to do things as best as I can. I will attempt to explain from what I have learned and answer some questions. Hopefully people smarter than me will also chime in. I will keep this post updated as much as I can. Preface Litecoin is a type to electronic currency. It is just like Bitcoin but it there are differences. Difference explained here. If you are starting to mine now chances are that you have missed the Bitcoin mining train. If you really want your time and processing power to not go to waste you should mine LTC because the access to BTC from there is much easier. Mining. What is it? Let's get this straight. When making any financial commitment to this be prepared to do it with "throw away" money. Mining is all about the hashrate and is measured in KH/s (KiloHash/sec). Unlike the powerful ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) that are used to mine bitcoins using hashrates in the GH/s and even TH/s, litecoin mining has only been able to achieve at the very best MH/s. I think the highest I've seen is 130 MH/s so far. Which leads us to our next section. Mining Hardware While CPU mining is still a thing it is not as powerful as GPU mining. Your laptop might be able to get 1 a month. However, I encourage you to consult this list first. List of hardware comparison You will find the highest of processors can maybe pull 100 KH/s and if we put this into a litecoin mining calculator it doesn't give us much. Another reason why you don't want to mine with your CPU is pretty simple. You are going to destroy it. So this leaves us with GPUs. Over the past few months (and years) the HD 7950 has been the favourite because it drains less power and has a pretty good hashrate. But recently the introduction of the R9 290 (not the x) has changed the game a bit. People are getting 850 KH/s - 900 KH/s with that card. It's crazy. Should I mine? Honestly given the current difficulty you can make a solid rig for about $1100 with a hashrate of 1700 KH/s which would give you your investment back in about a month and a half. I am sure people out there can create something for much cheaper. Here is a good example of a setup as suggested by dystopiats PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.
Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-29 00:52 EST-0500
Estimated Hashrate (with GPU overclocking) : 1900 KH/s Hardware Fundamentals CPU - Do you need a powerful CPU? No but make sure it is a decent one. AMD CPUs are cheap to buy right now with tons of power. Feel free to use a Sempron or Celeron depending on what Motherboard you go with. RAM - Try to get at least 4 GB so as to not run into any trouble. Memory is cheap these days. I am saying 4 GB only because of Windoze. If you are plan to run this on Linux you can even get away with less memory. HDD Any good ol 7200 RPM hard drive will do. Make sure it is appropriate. No point in buying a 1TB hard drive. Since, this is a newbie's guide I assumed most won't know how to run linux, but incase you do you can get a USB flash drive and run linux from it thus removing the need for hard drive all toghether. (thanks dystopiats) GPU - Consult the list of hardware of hardware I posted above. Make sure you consider the KH/s/W ratio. To me the 290 is the best option but you can skimp down to 7950 if you like. PSU - THIS IS BLOODY IMPORTANT. Most modern GPUs are power hungry so please make sure you are well within the limits of your power consumption. MOTHERBOARD - Ok, so a pretty popular board right now is Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 and the ASRock 970 Extreme4. Some people are even going for Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5 and even the mighty Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD7 because it has more PCI-E slots. 6 to be exact. However you may not need that much. With risers you can get more shoved into less. PCI-E RISERS - These are called risers. They come in x16 to x16 and x1 to x16 connections. Here is the general rule of thumb. This is very important. Always get a POWERED riser otherwise you will burn a hole in your MoBo. A powered rise as a molex connector so that additional power from PSU can be supplied. When it comes to hardware I've provided the most basic knowledge you need. Also, take a look at cryptobader's website. This is very helpful. Please visit the mining section of Litecoin Forums and the litecoinmining subreddit for more indepth info. Mining Software Now that you have assembled your hardware now you need to get into a pool. But before you do that you need a mining software. There are many different ones but the one that is most popular is cgminer. Download it and make sure you read the README. It is a very robust piece of software. Please read this if you want to know more. (thanks BalzOnYer4Head) Mining Pools Now that your hardware and software is ready. I know nothing about solo mining other than the fact that you have to be very lucky and respectable amount of hashing power to decrypt a block. So it is better to join pools. I have been pool hopping for a bit and really liked give-me-coin previously known to the community as give-me-ltc. They have a nice mobile app and 0% pool fees. This is really a personal preference. Take a look at this list and try some yourself. How do I connect to a pool? Most pools will give you a tutorial on how to but the basics are as follows:
Signup for a pool
Create a worker for your account. Usually one worker per rig (Yes people have multiple rigs) is generally a good idea.
Create a .run file. Open up notepad and type cgminer.exe -o (address_to_the_miningpool:port_number) -u (yourusername.workername) -p (your_worker_password_if_you_made_one). Then File>Save As>runcgminer.run (Make sure the drop down is set to "All Files" and .txt document.) and save in the same folder as cgminer. That's it.
Double click on runcgminer.run (or whatever you named it) and have fun mining.
Mining Profitability This game is not easy. If it was, practically everyone would be doing it. This is strictly a numbers game and there are calculations available that can help you determine your risk on your investments. 4 variables you need to consider when you are starting to mine: Hardware cost: The cost of your physical hardware to run this whole operation. Power: Measured in $/KwH is also known as the operating cost. Difficulty rate: To put it in layman's terms the increase in difficulty is inversely proportional to amount of coin you can mine. The harder the difficulty the harder it is to mine coin. Right now difficulty is rising at about 18% per 3 days. This can and will change since all you miners are soon going to jump on the band wagon. Your sanity: I am not going to tell you to keep calm and chive on because quiet frankly that is stupid. What I will tell you not to get too carried away. You will pull you hair out. Seriously. Next thing you will need is a simple tool. A mining profitability calculator. I have two favourite ones. coinwarz I like this one cause it is simple. The fields are self explanatory. Try it. bitcoinwisdom I like this one because it is a more real life scenario calculator and more complicated one (not really). It also takes increasing difficulty into account. Please note: This is the absolute basic info you need. If you have more questions feel free to ask and or google it! More Below.
Step 4: Let's Benchmark! This kind of benchmarking isn't as fun as something like Fire Strike or the various built-in game benchmarks you've used, but if you do enjoy tweaking your GPU you might ... 5 Best GPU Mining Rigs For Bitcoin Mining 1. Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 . Nvidia which is known-name in the gaming industry found a different user base with almost same needs. Nvidia has been in the manufacturing of GPU mining rigs for long, and it’s GeForce GTX 1070 is perfect for the beginners. It provides high hash rats of up to 30mh/s and consumes considerably less energy while doing it ... Find hashrate of graphics card's and submit yours to help others. Also find graphics card power consumption, which driver version to choose, tweaks and suggestions. dashboard devices benchmark plugins. Simple dashboard gives you a quick overview of the most important information. You start mining with only one click! Are you operating a mining farm? NiceHash OS - a FREE mining operating system for unlimited number of rigs! learn more about NHOS. Available for. MacOs. Windows. Linux. COMPLETE REMOTE CONTROL Manage your rigs with Rig Manager. Control your ... 3. Best Bitcoin mining software CGminer. Pros: Supports GPU/FPGA/ASIC mining, Popular (frequently updated). Cons: Textual interface. Platforms: Windows, Mac, Linux Going strong for many years, CGminer is still one of the most popular GPU/FPGA/ASIC mining software available. CGminer is a command line application written in C. It’s also cross platform, meaning you can use it with Windows ...
Building my Benchmark Mining Rig for Hashrate Testing
Nicehash miner is one of the best and profitable miner to mine bitcoin. But it works only when you do a proper bench-marking of your graphics card and select the most profitable algorithm for ... Nicehash Multi CPU / GPU Cryptocoin Miner & Benchmark Software - Duration: 14:45. IMineBlocks 104,959 views. 14:45 . LOOPHOLE IN THE BLOCKCHAIN TO GET ANY PRIVATE KEY, FACT!!! - Duration: 18:36 ... I am going to show YOU how to CORRECTLY benchmark your CPU. https://www.maxon.net/en/products/cinebench/ If you liked this video please give a THUMBS UP and ... Nicehash mining Multi CPU,GPU Cryptocoin & Benchmark Software Largest Crypto-Mining Marketplace SELL computing power of your PC, server, workstation, ASIC or farm Link FOTO CPU :https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Dmm33JhZhICZLeH-9X9TAIM8gQ8_7xV/view?usp=drivesdk Link Foto Vga/Gpu :https://drive.google.com/file/d/15paAmV...